BMS Book Club – Chapters 1-7


This is a discussion page for Chapters 1-7 of “Black Magic Sanction” by Kim Harrison.


Chapters 1 to 7 ONLY!! 

 
Some topic ideas for discussion (You don’t have to answer all, of course, and if you can think of another question–cool! Post it as a comment and we’ll move it up to the top):
 
 
 

 


Chapter 1

1)Raspberry is brought up again(laugh)–what’s the deal with those who can twist demon curses and their changing tastebuds? what do you think this means, if anything?

2)Al’s spelling kitchen. It was said that it is 1 of 4 rooms Al recovered. Don’t you get the feeling it was described so thoroughly because we’re going to see alot of that room(and the others eventually) in the future? It seems small but has a cellar and 40′ roof!

3)Al wears white gloves…why?

4)The creepy tapestry that has figures on it that moves! What IS that all about?

5)OK–Pierce’s accent, speaking style? I like that it IS different. Must be fun to write, but…I don’t know…

6)I guess I would have to re-read WWBC, but i don’t remember Pierce “willingly” agreeing to be Al’s familiar in exchange for a body. Rachel is mad at him for this, but as i remember it, he didn’t really have much of a choice did he? maybe she means he excepted it too willingly?

7)Quote: “I looked at Pierce now, seeing the same reckless determination, the same disregard for the future that had gotten me shunned, rightfully…” We’ve seen/heard self-recrimination from her before, do you think this is anything different? Just talk, or she really wants to change?

8)Rachel uses ley-line charm to light candle. Why or why doesn’t she ever develope this ability as a weapon!? We don’t know ALOT about the “truly dead” ie vampires–are they light averse or will they burn? They seem awful vulnerable to not only demon, but even witch magic…If Cerie can heat up a tea kettle, couldn’t rache heat up Rynn’s ass when he gets in her face?(LOL)

9)Rachel uses ley line to throw a protection bubble around her soul w/n her in bid to protect herself from possesion…Soooooo souls occupy a finite space and can be located?

10)Krathion is the lunatic soul that posesses Rachel…Is it a demon soul? I don’t think so…It looked at Al in hatred, right? You think it’s Elven? Then again, Al says Pierce can’t hold a soul other than his own because he’s NOT a demon? Maybe hold and possess are 2 different things?

11)When Rachel has to let go to allow Al access and remove Krathion, did she die? What happened? She said she felt “centered,alone, and understanding.” No hurry, no reason, a blissful state of no questions…except is this where Kisten went and she could smell her dad’s aftershave!? Where did she go and what does it mean?

12)Newt pets Pierce like a lover, or pet…what’s up w/that?

13) Al’s warning to Rachel at end of chapter–a “simple possession curse” could take over her body and her abilities…what do you think? foreshadowing?

Have fun 🙂

CHAPTER TWO:

1) Call-back from chapter 1: After Al confesses to Rachel that he tried to trick her into taking Krathion’s soul, Rachel tells Al to be honest with her. She says if she is going to go bad, the let her make her own grave(ie choices). She also thanked him for saving her when things went wrong and apologized. I bring this conversation up because i think a BIG underlying story to BMS is going to focus on Rachel “growing up”, thinking things through, taking responsibility, making better choices…What do you think?

2) “Pierce…was a teenage crush…I was done entertaining crushes…” What do you think? 3rd instance in 2 chapters that Rachel is “trying” to grow up.

3) Chapter opens w/Rachel “recounting” interaction with Ivy earlier(Ivy canceled plans and made her breakfast and then lunch as they discussed previous nights events). I don’t know about you, but I always wish we would get to see this interaction — it’s so damn rare, to see them interact as friends.

4) “Adrenaline seeped into me, slow and sweet, making my heart pound and my senses come alive. It felt so good, it scared me.” I don’t know if i should count this as the 4th instance of self-knowledge or not. But–Rachel’s recklessness for danger – her love of it, in life, relationships, occupation…i don’t know, i never totally believed it. What do you think? Why is she this way?

5)In this scene w/Vivian, smut on a person’s aura is brought up for the hundredth time in this series. But-I have to ask: so, what of it? I mean is there some religious aspect that everyone is concerned about? Early in 1st book, there was some thought that the more smut one had, the more that it consumed a person…but, i haven’t heard of any “down-side” to having smut of late. Thoughts?

6)Vivian contains Rachel’s powers with only 1 zip strip on one arm? I thought you had to cuff both hands?

7)OK–Vivian. What do you think? Cool character? Want to know more about her? One more witch who is better at magic than Rachel.

8)As Rachel & Ivy stand over Vivian, Ivy vamps out a bit and Rachel reacts: “From nowhere, a quiver rose through me at the memory of her teeth sliding into my neck, and the exquisite feeling of rising pleasure mixed with the blood-boiling sensation of coming ecstasy…Beside me, I felt Ivy quiver…” Huh? Really? Hot, but it makes her sound like her passion for Ivy is all-consuming. If it is, i say let the characters talk about it.

9) After Vivian’s magical attack, Ivy says her arm went numb “like Zombie prickles.”  Are there zombies in the Hallow’s universe? Now, that would be something…

10) After Vivian leaves grocery, Rachel edges away from Ivy to give her some distance “to get a handle on her instincts.” They do this ALL THE TIME. Remember when Rachel’s mom used a charm to mask Minias’s scent? I just find it hard to believe there isn’t a magical solution to help Ivy and Rachel occupy the same space. Do you think there IS a magical solution, but they both…er, like pushing each other’s buttions?

Feel free to add quesions/ideas… 🙂

CHAPTER THREE

1) Glenn’s office: Rachel notices a couple of books on nineteenth-century serial killers. Someone on the spoilers page noticed this and Kim was impressed. So, it does mean something. What do you think it means, if anything? And, who do you think it might pertain to?

2) Glenn has changed his appearance. And, his usually organized office is in a mess. He seems very sauve and nonchallant to Rachel, at one point calling her “baby doll.” Rachel notices his cologne smells “citrusy” and he feigns indifference even when Ivy shows up? Rachel can smell Ivy on his coat. Question: do you think Glenn is changing? For the better? Is this because of Ivy, and if so, are you worried for Glenn?

3) raspberry flavored coffee is brought up again(LOL). Rachel says Al introduced it to her last winter. Does anybody remember this? Was it at the meeting w/Mia and Ford at coffee shop?

4)Rachel describes Trent’s looks in loving detail (Again!), but only admits to being attracted to his voice(again–LOL). Do you believe her?

5) Trent is described as Cincinnati’s most eligible bachelor. Thought: all his relations w/women seem calculated and lacking in any real romantic emotion: his ex-fiancee, Cerie, Rachel. Do you think it’s w/n the realm of possibility that Trent could be gay?

6) Trent says he didn’t tell the coven of moral and ethical standards that Rachel was a “witch-born demon” whose “children will be demons able to exist on this side of the ley lines.” Did you believe him at this point? Why?

7) Rachel calls Trent “you little cookie maker.” (LOL) What did she mean with this insult?

8)Rachel tells Trent “ceri was right–you are a demon.” I don’t remember Ceri saying that…did Rache make that up?

9) Jenks is dressed in “pixy winter wear” to protect against hibernation and possible death. Question: doesn’t it seem like there should be a charm or curse that could do the same?

10) Trent offers Rachel servitude and protection. Why? Is it all business?

CHAPTER FOUR:

1) Rachel comments on Ivy: “Her long fingers spun a world-weary, holed coin…like it was a rosary. She kept it as a reminder that she couldn’t love without hurt…” –That’s not really true is it? Ivy CAN love without hurt. Rachel just doesn’t want to love Ivy fully, right? Rachel wants to love and share her aura with Ivy, but without sex. Don’t you think Rachel is projecting here?

2) Rachel uses the term “nightwalkers.” I don’t think she has ever used this term before…you think it’s a nod to her writing buddy, Jocelynn Drake?

3) We learn in this chapter that Ivy and Jenks are keeping secrets from Rachel (their actions in short, “Ley Line Drifter” as well as Ivy dating Glenn). I guess part of this is a writing choice to save time in explaining story from a short, but this IS emblematic of the relationship the 3 have, especially I&R–they’ll sacrifice and risk their lives for each other, but they can’t be honest with each other. They harbor secrets. They are hesitant to ask questions or pry…What do you think of this?

4) Why is Ivy so embarrassed/guarded about Glenn? She’s had an active dating life. What’s the problem?

5)Rachel knows Ivy can’t turn Glenn, “but she could bind him, make him a shadow.”  What does that mean, really? Does it mean Glenn could become addicted to her blood? How do living vamps bind others exactly?

6)In talking about blood, Ivy says “I told you I didn’t need much. It’s the act, not the amount.” Why do living vamps need to do this at all? We know the truly dead vamps need it to wrap themselves in another’s aura to make up for a lack of a soul. Living vamps have souls and can eat and drink. In wwbc Ivy’s aura was “thick” after a night of imbibing with Rynn and his bodyguards…is this process of taking aura addictive? Do living vamps aura dissapate over time and need replenishing? What do you think is going on?

7) In response to Ivy’s question “Jealous?” –Rachel says to herself that she and Ivy have a balanced relationship. Adding blood to it, no matter how right it felt, would destroy exactly what we admire most in each other.  What do you think Rachel is talking about? And, do you agree with her rationale?

8) Ivy asks Rachel if she’s OK with her dating Glenn. Rachel thinks: “She asked, as if she needed my approval, not because we’d almost been more than roommates, but because we had both loved Kisten and he was dead.”  Huh? Where did this come from? Jenks and Ivy pick up on it as well. This left me scratching my head. Do you understand what she means?

9) Rachel is pulled into ley line. We learn that her aura rose into her mind, tapping into the demon archive to find out what her body looked like, turning the energy of the line into a body…her body. (Incidentally, We learn Al explains this is why she has an “itchy” feeling when she does this. ie “itchy witch”–LOL). OK, the demon archive is accessed …what do this mean to you?

10) How come ley-line magic won’t work if your on a boat on fresh water? Rachel makes this statement. If it’s not salt water, i don’t understand this, do you? (related question: Also, she can spindle magic in her head/brain, right? Does she need to access a ley-line to use it?)

11) OK–what do you think of Ivy and Glenn? (laugh)

CHAPTER FIVE

(Rachel is summoned by Nick and The Coven to San Francisco)

1) It was a shock to see Nick again. Although, maybe it shouldn’t have been. Nick was someone I always thought was interesting. Tragically flawed, but not really a bad guy. What is your impression of him?

2) We find out that it was the witch’s coven of moral and ethical standards were the one’s that Nick was going to sell the were demon focus to. Surprise? Who did you think he was going to sell it to?

3)Rachel is ummoned into a circle, a bubble of ever-after. She uses a cell phone to weaken the barrier. Does this mean technology, electricty can thwart magic, or just a circle? I mean, could a sheild be developed that emits an elctrical pulse, or a weapon developed/used like a taser? Would that work?

4)Brooke. What is up with her anyway? Is she acting on her own? Is there a schism among witches? Is it personal ambition?

5) question: We know you can form a bubble within another bubble, right? Would it have been possible for Rachel to simply create a bubble of her own inside the coven’s bubble? Or, maybe she was cut off from ley-line? (Coven:”I got ya!” Rachel forms her own bubble–“Neener,neener,neener!”)

6)Do you think Rachel should have called Al for help?

7) Rachel briefly escapes, but predictably is magically “outclassed” again. I have to admit, this is becoming aggravating and too predictable. She is NEVER the “better witch.” With all the potential, brains, bravery, and power, she never seems to develope her skills, even though time and time again it puts her and her friends in danger. I know it would change the story, the dynamics between characters, etc…but, it’s bk 8!? What do you think about this aspect of the Rachel character–she bravely rushes into battles(chasing after Banshee in bk 7 when she knows she can’t stop her), constantly being saved/helped by others, and never solving,fixing things magically? Or, even trying to improve her abilities!?

8)Brooke says “You hereby have the choice of becoming neutered and rendered incapable of bearing children–or permanent imprisonment in Alcatraz.” I was surprised she was even giving Rachel a choice(LOL), weren’t you?

CHAPTER SIX

(Rachel at Alcatraz)

1) Rachel is in Alcatraz prison. It is noon. She is anxious to be summoned home. She can’t be summoned during the day can she?

2) Can a person be summoned from anywhere? Does it matter where she is?

3) Upon re-read, I was surprised this chapter is only 7 pages long!? It is so vivid, and so much is explained without any loss in continuity(how Rache was shipped over, showered, clothed, how prisoners are chemically neutered thru the food,etc). And four memorable characters – Mary, Charles, Ralph, and the bully Lenore are introduced.  It almost seems a waste that Rache’s stay is so short(LOL)–do you think there might be more about this place, and it’s characters, in the future?

CHAPTER SEVEN

(Rachel’s confrontation with Brooke in the prison before she breaks out)

1) Pierce shows Bis how to jump the lines. Then Bis swims to Alcatraz. Swim? Why not fly?

2) Bis said he (and no other gargoyles, including his father) didn’t know gargoyles could jump the lines. How come gargoyles don’t know?

3) Bis tells Rachel that Pierce knew where to go once they popped out of the west coast line. Rachel wonders how Pierce knew, given that Alcatraz did not exist when he was alive. What do you think? Suspicious?

4) Bis says the ward around Alcatraz Island is a modified ley line. Huh? How could there be a ley-line in the ocean/salt water?

5) Question: If Alcatraz is surrounded by salt water, why do the prisoners even need to wear charmed silver bracelets?

6) Rachel says you can’t be summoned during the day(NOW she remembers? LOL) but one could still jump them no matter what part of the day it is…Can Al, or another demon, jump the lines during the day?

7) Rachel is summoned out of Alcatraz at 6:15 PM Cincinnati time. Brooke is SO confident that Rachel can’t escape. I don’t get it. She already summoned her before, why did she not think Rachel could be summoned? There is no ley-line to be summoned into(If there were, why wouldn’t Bis have just jumped straight to the prison and avoided the swim?), so how was Rachel summoned? Again, can she be summoned from “anywhere” regardless of whether a ley-line is present?

Okee Dokee–I guess that’s chapter 1-7. Feel free to add/comment. I think we’ll probably add a more free-flowing BMS Book Chat page, ch8+ soon! 😉

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  1. February 9, 2011 at 10:02 pm

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  2. SeattleRobin
    April 12, 2010 at 8:27 am

    Some great discussion here. Are you going to open up the page to talk about the whole book here like was done with the first chapters? Once the book is done it’s hard to remember what info came in which chapter sometimes, which can make it hard to avoid spoilers!

    • April 12, 2010 at 9:03 am

      Hey there!
      I don’t have much time for the bookclub so I’ll leave the answer to your question for someone else. *looks at Antonio intently*
      I just wanted to welcome you here!
      Don’t be shy and come by the latest discussion page to chat with us! https://nastyromo.wordpress.com/discussion-sidepage/ds-12/

    • Antonio Rich
      April 12, 2010 at 10:12 am

      ROBIN!!! My buddy! You were my first Drama Page buddy I ever made, so it’s so cool you dropped by! 🙂 In fact, I was inspired to start NaStyRoMo(National Story of Romance Month) partly because of you!!! You were so appreciative of my encouragement to you during NaNo in Novemember, and because i was so guilty that i only half-heartedly participated(LOL) I thought I could at least write a short-story, right? (Laugh) Well, I didn’t know that story would blow up to 14,00+ words and…well, ALL THIS!

      To answer your question: It’s actually been kinda cool to re-read BMS and formulate questions chapter to chapter. We did it that way partly because it would be more in-depth, plus it would drag out the discussion(LOL), and most importantly not everyone had read the book at the time and we were giving people time to catch up! But–we are NOT about hard and fast rules here(laugh), and we tend to formulate questions on the latest discussion page(we notify we are bringing up a spoiler topic by obnoxiously warning–)

      ***SPOILER***SPOILER***SPOILER***

      Other places we bring up BMS topics are the HEA pages as well.

      Maybe we SHOULD add a BMS BOOK CLUB ch 8+ Page too…Hmmmm…

      But, to recap: Feel free to gab! 😉

  3. Tiffany
    April 5, 2010 at 2:56 am

    CHAPTER FOUR:

    1) You know – I was wondering the same thing. There is the literal aspect of Ivy puncturing her skin. But Rachel wouldn’t actually perceive that as pain. Okay Ivy DID loose control and almost kill Rachel. However this only happened when she tried to separate emotional intimacy from physical intimacy. So basically the pain is a result of denying what was between them – not from embracing it. So I think one of these two things is more accurate: either that Rachel can’t love Ivy without Ivy inevitably dealing with the emotional pain of rejection, or that denying love is pain. That said, I think Ivy feels like she is a monster. And what happened with Rachel – in the van, in the kitchen when she couldn’t comfort her – just reinforces Ivy’s feeling that way.

    2) I don’t know. I don’t recall her previously using that term either.

    3) Hmmm secrets. I’m trying to remember what other secrets are between them. It is frequent for Rachel to do something dangerous and tell Jenks not to tell Ivy. And Ivy used Rachel’s spell pot and told Jenks not to tell Rachel. Also a lot of what Ivy does Rachel just plain doesn’t want to know about it. Thus she is surprised to find out X years into being Ivy’s roomate that she volunteers in the children’s wing at the hospital. I think at this point it represents that they can’t really be themselves with each other. If so, the next question is whether that’s because they are avoiding the way they really feel.

    4) I’m wondering the same thing. I think Ivy and Glenn are at least having a blood relationship. So maybe Ivy is so scared to fail in not hurting him and have Rachel know it? The only other thing I can think is that Kim isn’t yet ready to tell us about Daryl – and so she made the whole scene evasive so that the thread is there to be woven into whatever next book.

    5)This is the proceedure for making someone your shadow: Stand next to them and spin around three times in front of a mirror while you say “shadow, shadow, shadow”. LOL. No, to be a shadow means that you have a loss of your own will. While to be a scion is a partnership. I’ve wondered that too, though. EXACTLY how do you bind someone. Is it something Ivy could accidently do to Rachel? I think Rachel is worried she would allow herself to be bound in a moment of passion. But would Ivy DO something like that? I think it would have to be an accident – and so that depends on HOW exactly the binding happens. And really – don’t you think the name Ivy is significant to this conversation? I think it is interesting that her name is both like Ivy, as in a vine that winds and binds around things – and also sounding like I.V. as in intravenous.

    6) Oooh interesting bunch of thoughts there. I’m thinking the key is in the statement that it is the act. To me, that means it isn’t a physical need but an emotional one. Or a physical need that is emotionally fulfilling. Ivy also listens to soulful jazz and hauntingly sings Takata’s sad vamp track. I see her as a very emotionally led person. I’m guessing that not all living vamps would say the importance is in the act if my take on it is near the mark, though. But I think it adds to the characterization of Ivy as needing that connection.

    7) I think this might relate to the comment that was had at Rynn Cormel’s place where Rachel couldn’t be Rachel if she was Ivy’s scion – and that Ivy wouldn’t be Ivy if Rachel was something like a master vampire to her (I for one thought Rachel being Ivy’s master vampire sounded like an interesting option). So – maybe she means they won’t be free to make their own choices and be independent of one another? Could this be rephrased as “independence is what we admire most in our relationship”? If so, I think Rachel is really the only one who thinks that this quality is the best one 😉

    8 – I followed what Rachel meant – but it did surprise me and leave me scratching my head too. If I were in that conversation with Ivy, Kisten wouldn’t be why I thought she was asking. LOL.

    9) This is a question I was going to put to Kim on the spoiler page. I think this is really interesting too. Do demons have body=soul archieves on everyone? Or just registered people? But Rachel wasn’t registered the first time she travelled the lines – did this body matching occur that time too and she just didn’t notice? But what it means to me? I think in essence Kim is talking about souls being a seprate intity from a body. Me, I think this reflects on love itself.

    10) I think Kim said that the ley lines are weak over water. Why is a really interesting question. Mmmmm. You’re going to get me going off on a symbolic journey.

    11) Glenn is completely vulnerable to Ivy. I think if Ivy can be with Glenn and not hurt him, it will give her some confidence that she needs. Maybe, and I’m speculating here, if the emotional temperature is a bit cooler it will be easier for Ivy to not get carried away. Maybe Ivy needs to nurture that protective instinct – the one that Rachel has, which makes her not blast Ivy with a bitch slap of ley line force when she looses control. 😉

    • Antonio Rich
      April 5, 2010 at 12:42 pm

      1)I think Ivy once said that for Rachel to share blood/bite/aura with her she(Rachel) would either have to have sex with her OR hurt her(to keep Ivy from hurting her). I think Piscary “trained” her to be cold blooded when taking blood(remember, Cormel complimented Piscary as creating a “masterpiece”…-shudder-hate RynnC). Still, I think KH “recaps” the reasons why R&I are not together in shorthand sometimes(I mean ALL the time, really)…at least from Rachel’s perspective.
      3)I think R&I have known each other for 6 years, lived together 2 years. Yeah, I guess if they were all on the same page, the drama/conflict might suffer…? But, it definitely strikes me as NOT normal.
      4)Glenn really doesn’t acknowledge anything does he? Even when Ivy showed up at his office, he wasn’t flustered or anything. I saw signs in WWBC that Ivy and Glenn were getting friendly, so I don’t know why the big leap to secrecy either…?
      5)Yeah, it’s part of vampire lore that they can “bespell” you, but Rachel is the magic practitioner, not Ivy…I just don’t get how vampires bind one to their will…they must manipulate magic somehow…? I understand the pheromone angle, but not the mind-control…?
      6)Yes. It’s got to be very intimate experience. And, we know that it’s not really the blood she needs, but the aura intimacy…i guess it’s just something living vamps become hooked on for pleasure…
      7)I just think Rachel’s is rationalizing. How about–Rachel: “until i can pursue a full relationship with Ivy, i don’t want to use her for my own personal enjoyment when i know Ivy wants/needs more from me.”
      8)I’m still confused.(LOL)
      9)Hmmmm
      10)Ha!
      11)Kim said recently that the Ivy/Glenn relationship will leave Glenn…(dramatic pause)…”wiser.” Oh boy.

  4. April 4, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Sorry I never answered the chapter 4 questions. T_T

    1) I want to dig out his liver with a paper clip and gouge out his heart with a spork. End of discussion.

    2) I thought he was just gonna sell it to the highest bidder.

    3) Non-magic stuff can get through. Like bullets and whatnot.

    4) I think Brooke is looking out for herself. So personal ambition.

    5) Yeah, a bubble can be made in another bubble, but maybe since she was summoned she couldn’t do it. No, that’s not true. Okay, maybe she didn’t think about it?

    6) Yes!

    7) Well, things have been happening pretty fast, y’know? She doesn’t exactly get a break to hone her skills.

    8)Well, they are the coven of moral and ethical standards.

    • Antonio Rich
      April 5, 2010 at 12:12 pm

      1) remind me never to get you mad…or give you a spork!
      2) I thought he was going to sell it to some other weres.
      3)Hmmmmm
      4)I think you are right. But, what if she was also partnering with some Demon?
      5)Maybe your right. She didn’t want to piss off the coven?
      6)Hmmmm see #5.
      7)True…true…but, i think it’s more than that. I think Kim wants her NOT to be too powerful, but to stumble through on her wits, bravery, and friends. I still think she needs to be “a better witch” one of these days!
      8) Ha!

      • Antonio Rich
        April 5, 2010 at 12:43 pm

        PS–one of my nephews sometimes calls me “T-T”…Uncle TT…Ha!

  5. Phil
    March 24, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Hey guys, sorry I haven’t joined in, there’s sooo much reading and sooo little time in the day, and I’m going slower than I’d like, in chapter ten right now, and lovin’ it!!! I love your analysis, too. Sooo insightful!!! 🙂

  6. March 22, 2010 at 1:25 am

    Chapter 4

    CHAPTER FOUR:
    1) Personally – I believe yes, she’s projecting. So far, everytime Rachel has fallen in love with anybody, Nick, Kisten, Marshal and yes, Ivy, it’s been accompanied by hurt. Nick for his betrayal, Kisten for his death, Marshal for well, her fate or his abandonement and Ivy, (smile) because she’s Ivy and Rachel’s not fully prepared to accept that part of her life yet. That said – I think that Ivy too feels that way. Remember how she spoke in book 5 I think where she tells Rachel: “Love is pain Rachel, figure it out.” Ivy’s thought though are like a self fulfilling prophesy more.
    2) Ask Her. 😉 That woman called KH… 😉
    3) I think it’s going to backfire. I’m not fond of it, the whole idea. It proves a ‘flaw’ in the three link chain. I also can’t see Ivy telling Jenks things (who’s about as subtle as a sledge hammer sometimes) and not tell Rachel. As for the whole Glen thing though – I think that Ivy’s keeping it back from… Shame? Or, not shame exactly. But, have you ever started dating someone when you’re still in love with someone else and you know those feelings are returned? When you have to approach that person with The News… It’s a scary, awkward thing in which everybody pretends that it’s alright. But it’s not really.
    4) Jealousy. See point 3, it’s all entwined. Again, perhaps more than Rachel, Ivy’s aware of the subtle emotions between them. (R/I). She might be ‘defensive’ as to them being together.
    I think that this needs to be considered further and I’d pose a question of my own: 12) Will Glen now forever be ‘bound’ to vampires and sensitive to them as Rachel was to everybody else? It’s a dangerous place for a cop to be.
    5) I don’t know. I think that KH will reveal that still one day.
    6) Addiction I think. Pure addiction to the high that comes in. Living vampires also take blood because it’s ingrained, instinct as KH says often. It’s a way of ‘practicing’ for when they are dead. Or undead. Or. Whatever.
    7) No, I still think that inevitably, Rachel is scared to pursue a relationship with Ivy because she’s scared she might just like it and find that it’s enough for her. Her rationale is flawed, but then, she’s Rachel. I also don’t think that she was completely honest with herself. The girl’s in denial. She might be talking about her independence though as something that’s destroyed. I still don’t think that Rachel will react normally to being bound. Another question: 13) Do you think demons can be bound by vampires?
    8) I have no idea where that came from. It didn’t jell somehow. One moment, BANG, Kisten’s involved. It could come from the fact that she feels that they needed the other’s approval to carry on but really, i think that Ivy needed the approval of Rachel because she knows that in a sense, although it’s not physical, she’s in a relationship with Rachel.
    9) Like an online computer? ‘shrugs’
    10) Don’t know.
    11) You even have to ask? I think that Ivy made a mistake because she involved Glen in a world that he’s not prepared for in a sense. She’s given him a vamp scar, one that someone might well play on to get at him. Also, I can’t see it lasting. It’s too stable, too normal. Something’s bound to happen. Perhaps it was KH’s way to try and give Ivy some happiness but yes, I can’t see it flying. I also can’t see Glen standing on the sideline and being happy about it when the inevitable R/I moment happens again. And, anyway, lol, hello. Ivy likes girls as well. Can Glen share that? He seems like the kind of man who’d find it hard to admit that women can give other women something that he can’t. And, i’m not talking about sex FYI. I’m talking about companionship, rhythm, soul. Women resound differently together.
    So, as a recap – here’s my two questions:
    12) Will Glen now forever be ‘bound’ to vampires and sensitive to them as Rachel was to everybody else? It’s a dangerous place for a cop to be.
    13) Do you think demons can be bound by vampires?

    • Antonio Rich
      March 22, 2010 at 9:43 am

      1)yes, i guess i have undervalued the times when ivy has talked about pain and hurt mixed with love. It makes you wonder how her relationships with Kisten and Skimmer worked at all.
      3)two things–personally i’ve always wanted them to discuss outloud their feelings more. In the past, serious conversations are always so cryptic, short statements, not really dialogue(although Rach and Jenks have had that). But, this is KH’s baby, not mine(LOL) and it works. Secondly, i guess i buy Ivy not approaching Rachel about Glenn before i believe that both J&I would keep serious work-related problems from her. That’s crazy! I don’t buy it. But–to give it(the story) it’s due, you would probably have to have the book’s plot revolve around the actions from the short story. (shrug)
      4)jealousy? I think you bring up an interesting point that Ivy is tuned into Rachel’s emotions. Think what that must be like to feel a wave of desire(like in the grocery scene where Rache invisions Ivy biting her) and know from experience that the person will flip their emotions continually, deny them, or have emotions because of watching tv or a daydream. Again, because they don’t communicate well, it’s left up in the air usually. I think 2 things–she doesn’t want to feel rachel’s fear, rebuke. And, secondly–I just don’t think Ivy can help it. She’s taken it for granted that she’s in love, and will always be in love with rachel, and pursuing someone for more than sex and blood makes her feel a little guilty. and she knows from the past, that rachel is irritated when ivy feels guilty about pursuing romance/sex/blood–it seems presumptious to rachel and irritates her. And then, that makes ivy feel even more self-conscious, guilty, awkward. Luckily, Rachel is better about this which is why i think ivy calms down when she asks rachel “if it’s OK.”
      5) I don’t know exactly either. I guess it’s “magic”(LOL). I guess it’s an addiction thing.
      7) I can see that Rachel fears losing her freedom to think and act w/o interference(a very real fear), but i’m not sure what r loves about i that she fears losing…?
      8)I didn’t get that either…
      9)I guess you have to hold the idea of who and what you are when your body doesn’t exist in the ley-line. she knows how to do this now, which is good. remember she had to make a deal w/newt to accomplish the same thing once. but, it sounds like once your in the line your aura/mind can access “the demon collective?”
      10)all i know is that R should study up on her earth magic as well as her ley-line magic. but, if she can spindle magic in her head, like a demon, i wonder if she can use it w/o a connection to a ley-line. I can’t imagine a demon like Al getting caught in a situation where he can’t use magic…
      11) Interesting: Rachel doesn’t see a scar on Glenn, right? I guess it could be…er, elsewhere. I’m just sayin’. Wouldn’t it normally be on his neck? Other thought–does the “taking of the blood/mixing of aura” have to be initiated by the vamp? Idea: maybe he is biting Ivy. The mixing of the aura would be the same, right? Just a thought. Vamps wouldn’t be able to play on his scar if he doesn’t have one. Also, another bit of an idea–i once asked KH if glenn was part Elf on his mother’s side(pixys love him) and she said YES, she thought he did, but not enough to perform magic. Maybe that will give him some extra strength?
      12)I think people are somewhat sensitive to what vampires(especially the truly dead) can do anyway, but you’re right–it has to be against regulations i would think, if nothing else. it would be like a cop addicted to drugs. Of course, if Ivy continues to enjoy an exalted status in the community, she would be able to extend her protection over him even after they break up.
      13) Ahhhhhhh…that’s the question, right? I asked a similiar question to KH on the b&n chat about the need for contraception charm after her and Pierce had sex…i asked if it was even necessary. she said it was a good question, but didn’t directly answer whether P could get R pregnant. I don’t think Rachel is technically a witch or a demon. She’s a witch-demon–so, sometimes she favors one or the other. And, we know witches can be bound, so it’s a toss-up whether she would be affected or not, because i say demons can’t be bound. Although KH hasn’t categorically said they couldn’t has she…?

  7. Kylie Ru
    March 21, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    okay, the only one i can answer right away is 10. the lines don’t go over water. idk why.

  8. March 15, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    CHAPTER THREE

    1) books on nineteenth-century serial killers: I’m sure it means something. But what? A 19th century serial killer example is Jack the Ripper. Which reminds me of some of the disturbing stuff in the vampire sex book. Maybe it means that something dangerous is right under his nose?

    2) Changes in Glenn: He called Rachel “baby doll”? I’m gonna have to read this part again. It didn’t occur to me to be worried for Glenn. But now that you mention it, he did “take the tomato”… Hmmm. I’m going to have to think about this some more. I’m not totally convinced that Glenn and Ivy have something going on. It’s possible Ivy let Rachel think that’s what is going on because she dosn’t want her to know about Daryll for some reason. Maybe that doesn’t fully explain Glenn though – I don’t know.

    3) raspberry flavored coffee: A NO-raspberry version was ordered by Newt after Al showed up at the charm shop when Rachel was shopping with her mom and the three of them had coffee after. Al orders two of this drink in WWBC – I’m pretty sure it is when they meet Mia and Ford at the coffee shop – but orders ONE with rasperry for Rachel, Al has the same version that Newt drank.

    4) Rachel/Trent: I’m pretty sure she is attracted to his “tight butt” as well 😉

    5) Could Trent be gay?: Marrying for the sake of appearances IS a classic closet move. Now that you mention it: tight butt, fabulous hair, successful career, collector of rare art, eternal bachelor … totally gay 😉 OR maybe his commitment to the elven race is that much of a passion that he sees all else in that light only, making him distant and impersonal in relationships.

    6) I don’t know why – but I do believe him. I kind of think Rachel is going to find out that she misjudged Trent in a lot of ways. …or not!… Darn, I can’t decide!

    7) “you little cookie maker.”: It’s a refrence to the Keebler Elves 😀 Making delicious little cookies in their magical tree. This joke cracks me up! Ah, Kim-san is too funny!

    8- Ceri calling Trent a demon?: I don’t remember what Ceri said exactly, but Ceri did give him a big ass ego whack at the church when he found out she existed and tried to court her – but Ceri already saw how he treated Rachel and told him he made their proud race look bad. I’ll look for it – but if this is where she said it, she meant it figuratively.

    9) “pixy winter wear”: Rachel does have a warming charm – she used it when they swam Lake Michigan(?) off of Marshall’s boat. Maybe Jenks doesn’t use it because Matalina likes to take care of Jenks and he likes wearing her handiwork?

    10) servitude and protection: I think there is truth to Trent not wanting Rachel to have more control over him than he has of her (the thing about him being her familiar in the ever after). But then again, he has been making offers like this to her since book one. Why?-That’s a good question. Some kind of revenge for a past he blames her for? Pure power? Insecurity? For Kim to point out that a “safe easy life” has its own kind of strings? Or maybe Trent knows how powerful Rachel is and thinks he can “buy” having that power on his side? Or maybe she has other undisclosed genetic modifications that Trent wants to use to his advantage – something along the lines of helping the elven race? I don’t know, Trent is a “tough cookie”…LOL 😉

    • Antonio Rich
      March 15, 2010 at 5:43 pm

      SPOILER***SPOILER***
      1)Remember that later Ivy comes into Rachel’s room w/info on Pierce getting everyone killed in that village. Maybe Ivy had Glenn look it up. Could it pertain to Rynn Cormel? I seem to remember it said that he was a “young undead,” right? so it couldn’t be him. Also, i don’t think you read the story in Unbound where Daryl is introduced(or did you?), but she talks about Sylvan(i think that’s his name–the bad guy who killed her “sisters.” I can’t help but notice the similiarity to Newt described killing her “sisters”) who was a mad killer. Again, since she’s staying w/Glenn, maybe he’s looking this guy up?
      2)It was really upon this re-read that i noticed how much Glenn has changed and that Rachel notices it. Stud in his ear. Shaved head. habits and speech different.
      3)It had to be WWBC(which was in winter) where Al introduced Rachel to Raspberry-flavored coffee and your right, that’s the only scene i can think where he had the chance.
      4)Thank you. Of course she’s attracted to him. She’s Rachel.
      5)I think this theory holds weight. Although can you IMAGINE the outcry if Kim writes it!!! HA! He seems to have a chip on his shoulder about his dad–trying to live up to his standards. The fact that he doesn’t even try to put a little eye-candy on his arm as he runs around town to all these events, gatherings,parties…Ceri describes Trent as cold to her even though he states that she should replace his fiancee in marriage. Maybe she is wrong about him being wary of her smut on her aura…OMGosh! I so want to drop this theory on the DPage peeps…HAHA…
      7)That’s another good theory!!!
      9)Thank you!!! There has got to be a white charm that could protect him.

      • March 15, 2010 at 7:16 pm

        1) I did read LLD – and I really like your ideas, both that Glenn might have been looking into Peirce or Sylvan makes a lot of sense.
        Ooh – interesting parallel there with Newt’s sisters and Daryll’s sisters.
        2) It IS interesting how much Glenn has changed. Do you think he is sleeping with Ivy and has that “I’m getting laid” swagger? Or maybe it’s something more along the lines of “pride comes before the fall”?
        5) LOL – there would be an outrage! First Kistengate and then the outing of Trent 😉
        7) I didn’t see Marsha’s comment, but yeah – that’s why the Keebler elf crack is so funny! He LITERALLY makes the brimstone cookies. LMAO!
        9) The warming charm she used was a white earth charm. Maybe he’ll use it in the future.

      • Antonio Rich
        March 15, 2010 at 8:29 pm

        2)Well he is human and Ivy is a high-caste(not sure the exact wording for trueBlood here) living vamp–what she has to offer as a vamp could change a person…especially if glenn is biting her(yikes!)…remember when he said something like “no wonder Denon wanted to be one” in WWBC. I know Ivy said she will be careful, but…?

      • March 16, 2010 at 3:13 pm

        I remember that comment – very interesting. So, to boil down some of the various thoughts going here: is the change in Glenn worrisome and ominous? Or is he a more relaxed and confidant version of himself?
        If Ivy harms Glenn it would probably be a huge setback in her relationship with Rachel. Rachel will have warned her, Ivy will have failed to protect a friend from herself. Ah, the dramatic potential is strong here.
        But, if this is developmentally positive for Ivy then it will have to go the other way. Ivy would learn she can succeed at not hurting someone who is completely vulnerable to her power. Rachel would see Glenn as happy and not a shadow of Ivy’s with no self-will. Stong dramatic potential there also.

        Or – maybe she isn’t having a blood relationship with Glenn. Maybe he’s getting a “contact high” 😉

      • Antonio Rich
        March 16, 2010 at 10:49 pm

        There’s also the theory floating around on the spoiler page that glenn is a “beard” for ivy and she is really dating Daryl!(LOL)I just don’t see that. not yet. your ideas are dead on. ivy could be very careful. but glenn could become used to the stature, addicted to what ivy can do for him.

      • March 17, 2010 at 1:41 pm

        Because I had read “Unbound” in LLD – I was looking to find out were Ivy and Daryll are – so from the second I read that Ivy was so evasive about Daryll and also that she didn’t really confirm being in a romantic relationship with Glenn, so much as not deny it – I totally thought (think) there is some kind of “beard” goin’ on (beard?? that’s a new one to me, but I like it! – did I use it in a way that makes sense: “beard goin’ on”?) Anyway, Ivy and Glenn were in the same room together in this book, so we had a chance to see them as a romantic couple – but we didn’t. That doesn’t mean they aren’t together. I like Glenn, and I can see that if Ivy had a relationship with someone as vulnerable to her and her power as Glenn is and didn’t kill, injure, or bind him that this would be a good thing for her. Still, I’m just saying I’m not fully convinced that is what’s happening…or at least if that is all that is happening. I’d be shocked out of my mind if Ivy isn’t in a romantic relationship with Daryll at least for now (but hey, if I’m wrong it won’t be the first time in my life 😉 ). And Ivy said to Jenks that Daryll “isn’t sleeping with Glenn…she would know”. So maybe Ivy is sleeping with both of them and they are roommates but not sleeping with each other? (that’s kinda awkward…but maybe) Or maybe Ivy is only having a blood relationship with Glenn, but a different one with Daryll? Maybe Daryll doesn’t have blood? Or has blood Ivy can’t drink?

      • Antonio Rich
        March 17, 2010 at 2:36 pm

        Although the Ivy-Daryl romance works now as a theory (it’s almost like my Trent is gay theory!), all of Kim’s comments on this point to Ivy&Glenn…which makes me wonder how they are all going to work out. Terrible idea–maybe glenn loses his life and Daryl is there to pick up the pieces…?

      • Marsha
        March 17, 2010 at 5:02 pm

        I still think all those phone calls to Daryl on Ivy’s phone are a huge indication of what is going on between the two of them. It seems to me that whe wants to be near her all the time. And if Ivy isn’t in on the road trip with Trent in the next book, Ivy can move her in while Rachel is gone.

      • Kylie Ru
        March 17, 2010 at 10:55 pm

        TRENT ISN’T GAY, DAMMIT!!

    • Kylie Ru
      March 16, 2010 at 1:37 am

      Trent ain’t gay!!

      • Antonio Rich
        March 16, 2010 at 1:37 pm

        🙂

      • March 16, 2010 at 2:56 pm

        ROFL!!! …No, probably not 😉

      • March 18, 2010 at 9:57 am

        I’m going to float the “idea” to kim and see what she says(LOL)

  9. Kylie Ru
    March 13, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    Chappie three

    1) There is a new bad guy coming.

    2) I think Glenn might be changing, For the better? Hmmm, I kinda like this messy Glenn.

    3) I remember it was Al!!! It wasn’t at the meeting.

    4) Yes, I do believe her.

    5) Antonio, do you want me to a have a fangirl meltdown? Trent ain’t gay.

    6) I believed him. Trent’s the kind of guy who gets what he wants by himself. He doesn’t go through other people.

    7) I haven’t the faintest idea . . .

    8) I don’t remember that, but it sounds like something Ceri would say.

    9) I think he’s too small for a charm. There might be a curse, but if there is a negative impact from smut, the outfit probably works just fine.

    10) Yup, i think it’s just business. They’d be good partners.

    I’ll see if I can come up with some topics.

    • Antonio Rich
      March 14, 2010 at 10:44 am

      1)Your probably right. Although Kim also said she wants to incorporate the characters from her short, ley line drifter, into the books. Ivy could be asking glenn to do research on the bad guy who hurt Daryl. another idea–again i can’t claim this one(spoilerPage)–in the very first book the cab driver says he has copy of signed confession from rynn cormel…Hmmm…
      2)I kind of liked “squirrely” unsure Glenn.(LOL) I worry he could be lured, seduced by what Ivy can do for him, rather than just loving her as a person.
      4) C’mon. she’s attracted by more than just his voice!
      5) HAHAHAHA
      9)good point–no reason to add smut when a coat will do. I guess i always want Rachel to figure out her talent and be better at it.
      10)You surprise me. I thought you would say he “also” is suggesting that arrangement to be close to her because he kinda likes her…

      • March 15, 2010 at 7:22 pm

        “in the very first book the cab driver says he has copy of signed confession from rynn cormel”

        Dude! I read the books for the first time through starting about 6 months ago. …I’ve got to go back to the beginning with all this new information and give the whole thing a re-read! There must be so many little nuggets to uncover!

    • March 15, 2010 at 8:02 pm

      I wonder if he is too small for a charm. That would be a good question for Kim – one that seems spoiler-free.

  10. Marsha
    March 13, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    CHAPTER THREE:
    1. I seem to remember taht Kim herself said she doesn’t like Pierce, and I think we may find out that Pierce is an 18th Century serial killer.
    2. I think the whole Glenn thing is a red herring to get us all used to Ivy getting involved with Daryl who is staying with Glenn. Damn it.
    3. I actually thought I remembered Minias ordering that several books earlier.
    4.I think we are going to find out that Rachel was crying in the stables because she had a crush on Trent at camp, and he liked Jasmine.
    5. I don’t think Kim will add another gay character to the series after the flack she has gotten over R/I. I don’t think he’s gay, but I do think he believes he has to marry to protect the elf lineage, and that is more important to him than love.
    6. For some reason I really did believe that he told Rachel the truth. I don’t think he will allow anyone to get Rachel in a place where she can tell how his father was responsible for “creating” her demon side.
    7. Maybe a reference to him being the Brimstone supplier and Ivy baking Brimstone cookies?
    8. I thought that Ceri told Rachel she was a demon? If she said Trent was, this might be a foreshadow of some kind of blood relationship between Rachel and Trent has no brothers or sisters, perhaps Rachel’s mom “helped” his parents have a child. Wouldn’t that twist Trent’s shorts if he had witch blood?
    9. I think it would be pretty bad to take on more smut to keep Jenks warm if clothing can do it.
    10. Same reason I gave for 6.

    • Antonio Rich
      March 14, 2010 at 10:54 am

      1)Hmmm…that could be. Remember Ivy confronted Rachel with information about Pierce’s past. That could be it.
      2) 🙂 I know you don’t like that. But, I’m really intrigued w/Daryl. If nothing else, Ivy&Daryl would force Rachel to further confront her own feelings…I bet we’ll see more on that in Bk 10.
      3) Me too! But, it’s in ch3 that Al introduced her to it.
      4)Yep! 5)your probably right, but when Kim said Trent’s HEA surprised her, I thought “Aha!”
      7) That’s really good! That’s gotta be it. I didn’t even think of that.
      8) I seem to remember Kim saying Elves couldn’t mate w/witches. I could be wrong.

    • March 15, 2010 at 7:59 pm

      1) Yeah – it was so interesting that Kim said to someone over at the B&N site that she was glad [the commenter] didn’t like Pierce – that there was something about him.
      2) Yeah – if you think about it, last time Rachel got jealous over Ivy was when Skimmer was around. Maybe seeing Ivy with the smokin hot Daryll will push her to own up to her feelings and deal with them.
      8 – I think witches can only have babies with witches – because I remember wondering how important that would be to Rachel. I’m thinking it came up in a conversation between Rachel and her mom. But since I remember my reaction more than what was written itself, I’m not sure.

  11. Kylie Ru
    March 6, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    CHAPTER TWO

    1) Totally. What with her facing immortality and whatnot while those she loves will only live on in her heart.

    2) That or she’s trying to keep herself from getting hurt. That’s the thing about crushes. If you aren’t careful, you get crushed.

    3) Yeah. I know this may come as a shock to you, but I really like Ivy.

    4) Who wouldn’t? My God, having your body’s natural high coursing through your system, enhancing your senses? That’s amazing! It makes her feel alive, and that’s why she does it! It’s all about the risks, babe.

    5) The only down-sides I’ve seen are the light balls becoming inefficient if a person has a ton of smut (ie: Al). But other than that, I honestly think it’s just a concept they’ve been taught. Also, smut is just the “price” for when they change the nature of something. I’m thinking it’s the whole “converation of energy” thing.

    6) It’s the silver in the zip strip that does it. I’m sure a ring made of that charmed silver would work.

    • Kylie Ru
      March 6, 2010 at 9:51 pm

      Tink’s titties, I did it again! *grimbles and says some very unlady-like things*

      SEVEN!!!) I dunno ’bout Vivian. She killed the strawberries. Strawberry murderer.

      8- And I’m sure Rachel has some endorphins running through her blood at the moment . . .

      10) Maybe it wouldn’t work ’cause they spend so much time together. And Ivy doesn’t like magic.

      9) Oooo, I think we need some zombies. Oh, Al! *runs off to find him*

      • Antonio Rich
        March 6, 2010 at 10:20 pm

        “Strawberry murderer”…OK, I honestly laughed out loud on that one…

    • Antonio Rich
      March 6, 2010 at 10:22 pm

      Kylie called me “babe.” 🙂

  12. Antonio Rich
    March 4, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Well-Kim answered me back on the raspberry…(Grin) She said she’s trying to work it so that all demons and witches who have had rosewood syndrom (and have been turned on–not so many yet)…she didn’t answer who started it though, or if robbie has had it(although he hasn’t been “turned on” genetically, has he?)

    • March 4, 2010 at 1:24 pm

      Okay – I think I found the details. The drink first is mentioned when Minias orders it when they have coffee after Al attcks Rachel in the charm shop. BUT she does NOT order the raspberry part. Also, she doesn’t order the drink for Rachel. Rachel has black coffee. Then in WWBC Al orders TWO coffees like this, but ONE shot of raspberry “for my itchy witch”. Jenn just re-read Robbie’s order – no raspberry.

      • Antonio Rich
        March 4, 2010 at 1:34 pm

        Yeah, she wants to make it a “demon thing” and a drink/flavor that witch-demons(like Rachel and Lee) also like. She said she is trying to bring that out(I don’t know where she’s going with it?)…I don’t think Robbie suffered from Rosewood(I guess it’s dormant)

      • Kylie Ru
        March 6, 2010 at 9:30 pm

        Since it’s a recessive trait, (and these types of things tend to be one locus) there were three diffent combos Rache and Robbie could get since both their parents are carriers: 25% RR (don’t have it), 50% Rr (have the gene, but it doesn’t do anything, aka “carriers”), or 25% rr (enter Rosewood Syndrome)

      • Kylie Ru
        March 6, 2010 at 9:30 pm

        Oh, and *clears throat, sing-song voice* Told ya so!

      • Antonio Rich
        March 6, 2010 at 10:21 pm

        Smarty pants.

  13. March 3, 2010 at 1:53 am

    CHAPTER TWO:

    1) Yeah, I definitely think that there is a significant underlying story surrounding Rachel’s growth and development as an individual.

    2) I think Rachel is just trying to express a desire to base her attraction to a person on something deeper – to distinguish lust from love, perhaps – and to look for relationships that are based on love rather than lust (though IMO love + lust is a good combo as long as love is the foundation).

    3) Yeah, I’ll second that. I anxiously await the parts where Ivy comes into the picture.

    4) Why is she this way about adrenaline? My opinion is that it’s because she felt sick and weak as a child, and feeling so filled with adrenaline feels the opposite of that – the opposite of death.

    5) I asked Kim at the BBB chat if the physical pain and smut on Rachel’s aura is “full payment” for the imbalances – and she said “no, she still owes”. I’m also wondering what that means – who or what is owed? And how is that “payment” made? I believe she said somewhere else that the only way to get rid of smut on one’s aura is to give it to someone else. I know she said that there isn’t magic exclusively to get rid of smut, but maybe there is a possibility that there are actions or magic that has the side result of “restoring balance”? (she definitely has not said that there is.) As far as smut consuming a person, I’ve been wondering about that too – Ceri, for example, has tons of smut but it doesn’t seem to have made her dark or evil. Also, as Rachel has accumulated smut over time, her personality and morals don’t seem negatively affected by it. So what is smut? And how does passing smut onto a familiar work into this? Who or what is owed? Are these refrences to traditional religion? Certainly the structure of the system hinted at alligns with specific religious ideas. But I don’t know if she means to refrence specific doctrines and beings, or whether she means to point to these concepts as having a more universal truth that, while they can be reflected in religious doctrine, they can also be reflected in more general spiritual principles and in science (like the law of conservation of energy and Newton’s 3rd law of motion). I don’t know. These are just my thoughts. What do you think?

    6) Hmmm, I don’t remember either way. What are you thinking it might mean?

    7) Yeah, I think Vivian is a cool character. She has that “Harrisonian” 😉 quality where her morals and trustworthiness are completely ambiguous (at least so far as I’ve read) – so we are on the edge of our couches wondering whether Rachel should listen and trust her or run like hell!

    8- Talk about it? Well, I think Ivy has made herself clear. With the ball in Rachel’s court, the only person who should bring it up again is Rachel – only if she wants to change the status quo, of course.

    9) Zombie tingles? Ha! Nice observation. Wait…is Peirce a zombie??

    10) I don’t know – I don’t really see them as having such a bad time of existing in the same space. Rachel doesn’t seem that bothered by the fact that Ivy needs to collect herself. I guess I kind of like the way that being together – as friends, roommates, whatever – doesn’t have a magical solution, but requires their participation – kind of like real relationships ;-).

  14. February 26, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    My sincerest apologies, my friends, but . . . how to say this . . . Look, the coffee. Rachel is the only one who takes it with raspberry. None of the guys do. Minias didn’t introduce it to her. Al did.

    • February 26, 2010 at 11:20 pm

      But, Kim said Robbie likes raspberry in his coffee too…

      • Kylie Ru
        February 27, 2010 at 1:31 am

        rawr. I’ll look it up when I get the chance.

    • Jenn
      March 1, 2010 at 2:08 pm

      I just started re-reading WWBC & Robbie doesn’t put the raspberry in his coffee but he does put in the rest….”I’ll have a grande latte, double espresso, Italian blend, light on the froth, heavy on the cinnamon, with whole milk.” This is exactly what he orders in the airport when he arrives.

      • Kylie Ru
        March 1, 2010 at 11:40 pm

        Thank you, Jenn! :glomp:

      • March 2, 2010 at 11:30 am

        Grrr…I’m going to ask the teacher when she gets back(sticks out tongue!)

  15. Marsha
    February 26, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    OK I finally made it throught the first seven chapters and looked in on you guys. I’m still trying to get over my pout that Rachel and Ivy are definitely off…I feel teased.

    • Antonio Rich
      February 27, 2010 at 12:11 am

      I think it’s just for the next couple of books…

  16. February 26, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    OK – I haven’t gotten to a part where I know for sure one way or the other… but right now I’m inclined to think Ivy is spending so much time with Glen due to the LLD development. She dosn’t exactly confirm Rachel’s questions so much as not deny them (something Kim herself is a master at, LOL). Don’t tell me – I’m just anxious to find out and wanting to speculate to you 😉

    • Antonio Rich
      February 27, 2010 at 12:10 am

      I remember a LONG time ago, Kim said something to the effect that she sees Ivy’s HEA w/a woman, not a man…i always thought, held out hope(cause she’s a vamp and all) that maybe her and Rachel might…i don’t know, find someone (say David) that might bridge some kind of gap between R&I(see a connection between these ideas and my story?)…but, i don’t think that now–i think both of them are the kind of people who want to focus on just one person. but–i think R&I will have some kind of aural connection…Kim said i was onto something when i suggested that one time…so, i think ivy will end up w/a female(Daryl?) and have a special connection(non-sexual/mixing of auras) w/Rachel…just spit-balling on that one…

    • March 3, 2010 at 1:18 am

      I totally and completely thought that Kisten was going to be the bridge you mention.

  17. Antonio Rich
    February 26, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Hey–interesting tidbit on “the raspberry discussion”(LOL): In Dayton, someone asked why Rachel and her brother, Robby, like raspberry and she said she thinks it has something to do with the dormant Rosewood Syndrom that both witches carry…who first introduced it to her though…? I can’t remember, i thought it was Minias which is interesting that he would know…hmmm…

    • February 26, 2010 at 2:11 pm

      Are you saying Kim thinks it has something to do with the dormant Rosewood Syndrome that both witches carry,or a reader who you were talking to?
      Interesting… if so, since she specifically writes that Robbie liked the drink too, then maybe it will be significant that the Rosewood Syndrome is dormant in him.
      Oh yeah! It WAS Minias who introduced Rachel to the drink… that time when they had coffee with Rachel’s mom.
      What does this all mean??? LOL
      Maybe it stokes her demon fertility 😉

      • Antonio Rich
        February 26, 2010 at 5:51 pm

        It was Kim who said it…Also, she said she was committed to giving the two girls a HEA, and someone said, “I notice you didn’t say Jenks was getting one,” and Kim said “You noticed that huh?” and smiled! And, everybody “ooooo’d” over that. Maybe she’s just keeping the mystery for people who haven’t read BMS or…?

  18. Tiffany
    February 24, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    CHAPTER 1

    1)”Raspberry is brought up again(laugh)–what’s the deal with those who can twist demon curses and their changing tastebuds? what do you think this means, if anything?”

    In general, I think Rachel’s liking something so unique that Al likes was a foreshadowing of her being a proto demon. Also, I know what you mean – it is so specific. Amd it’s been mentioned several times – even a t-shirt with the recipe on it. Also, Kim said “it’s really good” about it recently. But she also says all the time “me, no I don’t drink coffee”. Maybe she just tasted it and it’s good. (It sounds good). Or maybe there is something there. What do you think raspberries could represent? Blood? Blood being part of a “recipe”…”receipe” like a solution?? (Einhorn and Finkle,Finkle and Einhorn…LOL – ok an Ace Ventura line). Hey, I tried to find it again later and couldn’t, but I could swear I read a scene where Robbie gets coffee with Rachel and likes it also. Did I imagine that?


    2)”Al’s spelling kitchen. It was said that it is 1 of 4 rooms Al recovered. Don’t you get the feeling it was described so thoroughly because we’re going to see alot of that room(and the others eventually) in the future? It seems small but has a cellar and 40′ roof!”

    Yeah, I think this is just the beginning of what we’ll see of Al’s house.


    3)”Al wears white gloves…why?”

    Okay, I think it is another symbol for something about him being hidden. The smoky glasses hide his eyes. Eyes are the symbol for the soul or for one’s true self. (Of course he also has creepy goat eyes). So I think the glasses represent that something about Al’s true self/soul is hidden – either that it has yet to be revealed to Rachel, or that he is actively hiding something. Hands represent our “doing”. So, this could symbolize that he is hiding something about what he is doing, dressing it up to make it look civilized. OR, maybe he has something on his hands – like marks he owes to other demons, something like that. LOL – OR maybe he just has expensive taste (is it his taste – or does he look that way for Rachel, since we know he wears several different outfits?)


    4)”The creepy tapestry that has figures on it that moves! What IS that all about?”

    Dude! That WAS creepy. I don’t know. It said to me that Rachel is in a world that is scary and has rules of nature or magic she doesn’t even know.


    5)”OK–Pierce’s accent, speaking style? I like that it IS different. Must be fun to write, but…I don’t know…”

    Yeah, probably if she has him stay around long he’ll pick up on the modern way of speaking.


    6)”I guess I would have to re-read WWBC, but i don’t remember Pierce “willingly” agreeing to be Al’s familiar in exchange for a body. Rachel is mad at him for this, but as i remember it, he didn’t really have much of a choice did he? maybe she means he excepted it too willingly?”

    Yeah, I was kind of surprised she is mad at him. Anyone would fight to stay alive, it’s human nature. He didn’t kill anyone for the body. Maybe it’s because of Nick – maybe her worry that another person in her life that can be manipulated and used (maybe to get to her) is showing itself as anger.


    7)”Quote: “I looked at Pierce now, seeing the same reckless determination, the same disregard for the future that had gotten me shunned, rightfully…” We’ve seen/heard self-recrimination from her before, do you think this is anything different? Just talk, or she really wants to change?”

    So hard to say. With what has been thrown at Rachel I’m trying to imagine her getting though it in a manner other than recklessly, LOL.


    8)”Rachel uses ley-line charm to light candle. Why or why doesn’t she ever develope this ability as a weapon!? We don’t know ALOT about the “truly dead” ie vampires–are they light averse or will they burn? They seem awful vulnerable to not only demon, but even witch magic…If Cerie can heat up a tea kettle, couldn’t rache heat up Rynn’s ass when he gets in her face?(LOL)”

    Isn’t this the power she uses to scortch the crap out of the body of Kisten’s killer slash Ivy’s workplace sexual harasser (his name is evading me)?
    But, yeah, if she could learn to make a burn like touching a candle flame – nothing lethal, but enough to get their undead hands off! 😉 That would be super smart.


    9)”Rachel uses ley line to throw a protection bubble around her soul w/n her in bid to protect herself from possesion…Soooooo souls occupy a finite space and can be located?”

    Oh, I LOVE where you are going with this!! If she can figure out how to find Ivy’s and throw a protection spell around it… 😀


    10)”Krathion is the lunatic soul that posesses Rachel…Is it a demon soul? I don’t think so…It looked at Al in hatred, right? You think it’s Elven? Then again, Al says Pierce can’t hold a soul other than his own because he’s NOT a demon? Maybe hold and possess are 2 different things?”

    And also, does that mean Rachel can hold a soul other than her own in her body? …So, maybe Rachel was at first “holding” the crazy soul, and then when it exerted it’s will and tried to claim her body she became “possesed”. Hmmm interesting – maybe if Ivy’s soul has to temporarily leave her body this is where it can go.


    11)”When Rachel has to let go to allow Al access and remove Krathion, did she die? What happened? She said she felt “centered,alone, and understanding.” No hurry, no reason, a blissful state of no questions…except is this where Kisten went and she could smell her dad’s aftershave!? Where did she go and what does it mean?”

    That’s what I was thinking. I mean, she let go of her hold on her physical body. I think she basically had a near death experience. Where she was and what it meant – you’ve got me. I’m guessing Kim dosn’t define that, but maybe she will.


    12)”Newt pets Pierce like a lover, or pet…what’s up w/that?”

    Yeah, I noticed their interaction seemed changed. So, Al leaves saying “Merely checking something. A tidy curse is a well-twisted one!” and Peirce says “Al will tarry with Newt for at least fifteen minutes.” So… it makes me wonder if maybe Al is twisting a curse on Newt… For sure he is visiting Newt regularly enough that Peirce knows how long he’ll be.


    13) “Al’s warning to Rachel at end of chapter–a “simple possession curse” could take over her body and her abilities…what do you think? foreshadowing?”

    Poor Rachel. Yeah…I do. Al didn’t manage to teach her what he did to get the crazy soul out of her (what’s up with that?). That’s too bad for Rachel.

    Ah…this book is going to be awesome!

    So, what are your thoughts Antonio? (on the stuff that isn’t answered later in this book at least)

    • Antonio Rich
      February 24, 2010 at 7:32 pm

      OK–9-10-11-these are all ideas for holding/preserving a soul…Kim has said that she has a number of ways for Rachel to save Ivy…those are a few ideas…In the last book we got ALOT on aurus–what they are,etc. I think she comes back to thses ideas to define/figure them out for her and us…1)i don’t know? i mean , a tomato almost brought down the world, what’s a raspberry?(LOL) 3)i seem to remember rachel holding al’s hand w/o glove and it was rough…if Mud were reading this, she would say something about people showing their age through their hands…

      Trust me, later on in the book, there are going to be some “really interesting things” to discuss…I’ll give everybody a day or two before moving to ch 2…I like your ideas!

  19. Kylie Ru
    February 23, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Antonio-kun, here are my ideas.

    1) I think it’s a demon-girl thing. Rachel is the only one who drinks it, and Al did know she’d love it when he got it for her. Like chocolate!

    2) Personally, I would love to see Al’s place. I’m hoping we’ll get to see more of it. But what does that mean in regards to the relationship between Al and Rachel? Hmmm?

    • Kylie Ru
      February 23, 2010 at 6:02 pm

      Crap on toast! Wrong button . . .

      3) Why not? And he’s a british gentleman. That’s what they did.

      4) Creepy demon paraphernalia.

      5) I don’t know if I even like Pierce.

      6) Yes, he did it willingly. He didn’t think he had a choice, but since he’s so very arrogant he thought he could handle it.

      7) I don’t know if she is trying to change who others think she is (like trying to get the shunning removed by “conforming” to their rules), or if she is trying to break away from that and . . . accept the fact she’s pretty much a demon.

      8) Come on, Antonio, would you think of that in the heat of battle? “I think I’m going to heat up your blood and kill you that way.” Wait, Rachel doesn’t kill. *reads the question again* She won’t do it because she could kill them. That’s a fine line, right there.

      9) Yes. I thought everybody knew that.

      10) Probably Elven. Yes, hold and possession are two completely different things. Possession is two souls trying to occupy the same place, thus battling over it. Holding is forcing it to stay there. Possession usually consists of occupying the body, suppressing the other for a short moment in time to accomplish a task, or forcing the other native soul to leave. For holding, imagine someone keeping another person underwater.

      Whoa, I started spouting off there, didn’t I? Okay, demons being able to hold while others can’t. Let me come back to this one.

      11) Where did Rachel go? Weeeeeeelllll . . . In order to get Krathion out, they needed to isolate Rachel so she wouldn’t get hurt. Krathion might have tried to take her out with him, causing her body to just be an empty shell. So. Al needed to take her soul where she would be protected. Maybe she went into her subconscious. I don’t think she left her body, I think she went deeper into her mind. Something like where Ford’s emotions are.

      12) Newt’s crazy.

      13) I think something else will try to take her, but she’ll be ready this time.

      Okay, I wanna think about the soul stuff some more, and get back to you on that.

      • Antonio Rich
        February 23, 2010 at 11:37 pm

        7)i think kim has said she wants to show Rachel growing up, starting w/this one…
        8)but–she’s gotta get some more skillz!
        9)i don’t know, it seems significant that she can isolate and protect her soul like it’s a clearly defined organ or something…
        11) i keep thinking she was in a purgatory state? or something where she was at peace…? she smelled her dad’s cologne(although i guess that could be a memory) and she was at peace
        12)pierce almost killed newt once, supposedly, maybe he got…er, closer to her before…
        13)we know kim is introducing a new “Bad guy” in #9 and there will be demon conflict(listen to me…talkin about #9 already)–i mean, rachel could be a pretty deadly tool if possessed the way al possessed lee…

    • Antonio Rich
      February 23, 2010 at 11:22 pm

      But-I think Minias drank coffee w/raspberry…i think…

      • Kylie Ru
        February 23, 2010 at 11:56 pm

        Nope. Just Rachel. Remember when her brother ordered his coffee? She said he ordered the same thing as Minias.

  20. Antonio Rich
    February 22, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    OK–re-read ch. 1 of BMS–It would be cool to other’s opinions on questions raised(You don’t have to answer all, of course/and if you can think of a question–cool!)

    1)Raspberry is brought up again(laugh)–what’s the deal with those who can twist demon curses and their changing tastebuds? what do you think this means, if anything?

    2)Al’s spelling kitchen. It was said that it is 1 of 4 rooms Al recovered. Don’t you get the feeling it was described so thoroughly because we’re going to see alot of that room(and the others eventually) in the future? It seems small but has a cellar and 40′ roof!

    3)Al wears white gloves…why?

    4)The creepy tapestry that has figures on it that moves! What IS that all about?

    5)OK–Pierce’s accent, speaking style? I like that it IS different. Must be fun to write, but…I don’t know…

    6)I guess I would have to re-read WWBC, but i don’t remember Pierce “willingly” agreeing to be Al’s familiar in exchange for a body. Rachel is mad at him for this, but as i remember it, he didn’t really have much of a choice did he? maybe she means he excepted it too willingly?

    7)Quote: “I looked at Pierce now, seeing the same reckless determination, the same disregard for the future that had gotten me shunned, rightfully…” We’ve seen/heard self-recrimination from her before, do you think this is anything different? Just talk, or she really wants to change?

    8)Rachel uses ley-line charm to light candle. Why or why doesn’t she ever develope this ability as a weapon!? We don’t know ALOT about the “truly dead” ie vampires–are they light averse or will they burn? They seem awful vulnerable to not only demon, but even witch magic…If Cerie can heat up a tea kettle, couldn’t rache heat up Rynn’s ass when he gets in her face?(LOL)

    9)Rachel uses ley line to throw a protection bubble around her soul w/n her in bid to protect herself from possesion…Soooooo souls occupy a finite space and can be located?

    10)Krathion is the lunatic soul that posesses Rachel…Is it a demon soul? I don’t think so…It looked at Al in hatred, right? You think it’s Elven? Then again, Al says Pierce can’t hold a soul other than his own because he’s NOT a demon? Maybe hold and possess are 2 different things?

    11)When Rachel has to let go to allow Al access and remove Krathion, did she die? What happened? She said she felt “centered,alone, and understanding.” No hurry, no reason, a blissful state of no questions…except is this where Kisten went and she could smell her dad’s aftershave!? Where did she go and what does it mean?

    12)Newt pets Pierce like a lover, or pet…what’s up w/that?

    13) Al’s warning to Rachel at end of chapter–a “simple possession curse” could take over her body and her abilities…what do you think? foreshadowing?

    • Kylie Ru
      February 23, 2010 at 4:27 pm

      Give me some time to think these over, and I’ll see what I can come up with.

    • February 24, 2010 at 6:31 am

      I’ll try to post my thoughts as well. It’s on my to do list but I’m swamped right now.

      However, I wanted to say (since I very recently read WWBC) that Rachel has used ley line to burn stuff. Remember a certain tunnel with a certain dead vampire named Al and his, also dead, minion? She burnt the hell right out of them.
      And it was a black charm.
      I think it’s where you draw the line: a candle is meant to be lit just as coffee is meant to be hot (actually coffee should have a molecule that keeps it from going cold). There is no ill-intent and it’s not too unnatural.
      However, bodies are not meant to be torched…

    • Jenn
      March 1, 2010 at 1:48 pm

      I’ll get to these as well when I have a chance…I’m still working on re-reading WWBC…OT is starting again, so I’ll have to read it slowly…but a lot of good questions, Antonio…

  21. February 19, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Hi Jenn! I can’t wait to get a discussion going – the more the better! I’m still reading the teaser chapters (I’ve been working 12 hour days every day this week, so I’m only getting time for about one chapter a night. I have to work another long day tomorrow too. Rats – my weekend is already seeming so short. Eh, enough about me!)

    We are wanting to break the discussion into chapter groups, so that as we read it we can come here and dish, jaw, flip out, cheer, and whatnot as we go (but not worry about spoilers on the ending). Antonio had the great idea to come up with discussion topics for each group of chapters – maybe inspired by the day over at Bitten By Books, which was really cool. I posted up top his rough ideas for chapters 1-7.

    I was going to post a link over at Kim’s site, but since she posted the spoliers page, I’ll wait until we’ve got our discussion topics sorted out – which I can help do once I finish the chapters.

    Be back soon! (Probably Sunday) But feel free to write about whatever is on your mind in the meantime!

  22. Jenn
    February 19, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Hi Guys,

    Antonio said it would be alright for me to join you guys & I really appreciate it…I’ve never done one of these before so just let me know what’s going on & I’ll follow along!

  23. Antonio Rich
    February 19, 2010 at 10:12 am

    I am definitely going to get to this page…eventually! I want to finish my NaSty story, and then I can concentrate on BMS. I like Kim’s spoiler page, and maybe we’ll participate in that, i’m sure. But, it will be cool, i think to have a “conversation” on specifics as well. Be Good… 😉

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